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	<title>Comments on: Deceptive fees for a merchant account - Heartland wins</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209</link>
	<description>Merchant Accounts, Ecommerce, Processing Equipment</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
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		<title>By: giulio</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-19049</link>
		<dc:creator>giulio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-19049</guid>
		<description>I just signed up with Heartland because i was dissatisfied with my current provider (Avant Garde Marketing) and i was promise a good deal on debit cards 0.35 per charge plus a network fee of max 10c each transaction. That would have been better than the fix 0.65 per transaction with the old provider. I just received the statement and yes the 35c are correct but the network fee is around 1% OF THE TRANSATION FOR AN AVERAGE OF 60c per ticket. I'm so mad...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just signed up with Heartland because i was dissatisfied with my current provider (Avant Garde Marketing) and i was promise a good deal on debit cards 0.35 per charge plus a network fee of max 10c each transaction. That would have been better than the fix 0.65 per transaction with the old provider. I just received the statement and yes the 35c are correct but the network fee is around 1% OF THE TRANSATION FOR AN AVERAGE OF 60c per ticket. I&#8217;m so mad&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Robb Lejuwaan</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-18837</link>
		<dc:creator>Robb Lejuwaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-18837</guid>
		<description>That makes sense to me, thanks for clarifying. 

I think in general Heartland is a decent company but the bar or who they hire does not seem to be too high.  Therefore, they sometimes have real inconstancy between their corporate voice/message and how their reps do business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That makes sense to me, thanks for clarifying. </p>
<p>I think in general Heartland is a decent company but the bar or who they hire does not seem to be too high.  Therefore, they sometimes have real inconstancy between their corporate voice/message and how their reps do business.</p>
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		<title>By: jestep</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-18836</link>
		<dc:creator>jestep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-18836</guid>
		<description>Robb,

I completely understand what you are saying. The main problem with this situation was not that Heartland was quoting a passthrough rate. There's no debate that passthrough will beat the majority of 3 tier, ERR or other rate structure accounts. The problem was that the merchant legitimately thought he was getting .4% for his processing.

This may or may not have been a problem with the specific rep and the merchant may just have heard what he wanted to, but nowhere on the proposal did it actually state that this was in addition to interchange, or there were any additional charges.

I think I probably could have chose my own wording more carefully here, but based only on the information on the proposal, I still stand by what I said in this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robb,</p>
<p>I completely understand what you are saying. The main problem with this situation was not that Heartland was quoting a passthrough rate. There&#8217;s no debate that passthrough will beat the majority of 3 tier, ERR or other rate structure accounts. The problem was that the merchant legitimately thought he was getting .4% for his processing.</p>
<p>This may or may not have been a problem with the specific rep and the merchant may just have heard what he wanted to, but nowhere on the proposal did it actually state that this was in addition to interchange, or there were any additional charges.</p>
<p>I think I probably could have chose my own wording more carefully here, but based only on the information on the proposal, I still stand by what I said in this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Robb Lejuwaan</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-18835</link>
		<dc:creator>Robb Lejuwaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-18835</guid>
		<description>I have always been impressed with your blog.  I really think it is the best merchant account blog out there.  

Having said that, I think you are really off on this post.  It sounds like Heartland quoted them an "interchange plus" rate which will end up saving the merchant considerable money.  Most merchant accounts come with a very low "qualified rate" but really hit the merchant hard on the "mid-qual" and "non-qual" fees.  Heartland may have had a higher "base" or "qualified" rate than your guy, but when it came to rewards, corporate and business cards there rate was probably much lower than yours.

I say this because when I review a merchant account with rate tiers 95% of the time I can save that merchant considerable money by proving them a "straight pass through" or "interchange plus" price model.

So you have forced me to side with Heartland on this one. However, please keep up the great content on your blog; you are doing a great job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always been impressed with your blog.  I really think it is the best merchant account blog out there.  </p>
<p>Having said that, I think you are really off on this post.  It sounds like Heartland quoted them an &#8220;interchange plus&#8221; rate which will end up saving the merchant considerable money.  Most merchant accounts come with a very low &#8220;qualified rate&#8221; but really hit the merchant hard on the &#8220;mid-qual&#8221; and &#8220;non-qual&#8221; fees.  Heartland may have had a higher &#8220;base&#8221; or &#8220;qualified&#8221; rate than your guy, but when it came to rewards, corporate and business cards there rate was probably much lower than yours.</p>
<p>I say this because when I review a merchant account with rate tiers 95% of the time I can save that merchant considerable money by proving them a &#8220;straight pass through&#8221; or &#8220;interchange plus&#8221; price model.</p>
<p>So you have forced me to side with Heartland on this one. However, please keep up the great content on your blog; you are doing a great job.</p>
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		<title>By: Jams Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-11269</link>
		<dc:creator>Jams Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-11269</guid>
		<description>My son has a small detail biz and he showed me his Hartland statement and asked me if he could get better rates.

The statement showed:

1.64% = $.10
.09% + $.10
$5.00 statement fee

I told him to keep this deal because it was just above cost.

A few months later he comes to me with another statement from heartland 
and it has a quarterly billing fee of $40.00 added to it.

He called heartland and they told him it's their profit !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My son has a small detail biz and he showed me his Hartland statement and asked me if he could get better rates.</p>
<p>The statement showed:</p>
<p>1.64% = $.10<br />
.09% + $.10<br />
$5.00 statement fee</p>
<p>I told him to keep this deal because it was just above cost.</p>
<p>A few months later he comes to me with another statement from heartland<br />
and it has a quarterly billing fee of $40.00 added to it.</p>
<p>He called heartland and they told him it&#8217;s their profit !</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Jamison</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-2142</link>
		<dc:creator>Earl Jamison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 23:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-2142</guid>
		<description>I used to own a little steak house down in Kansas City. I used to do all my processing with Heartland, that company screwed me over with that exact same thing. I can't even believe those bastards, ran me out of business and money, my credit is screwed, and my business is closed. I am greatfull you are letting people know not only about Heartland, but about everything to look for when you find a merhcant account. Thank you Earl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to own a little steak house down in Kansas City. I used to do all my processing with Heartland, that company screwed me over with that exact same thing. I can&#8217;t even believe those bastards, ran me out of business and money, my credit is screwed, and my business is closed. I am greatfull you are letting people know not only about Heartland, but about everything to look for when you find a merhcant account. Thank you Earl</p>
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		<title>By: PSI</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1853</link>
		<dc:creator>PSI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1853</guid>
		<description>I have competed with heartland for years and I can say one thing, when it comes to effective rate, try to compete.  They are always close to the lowest and hardest to compete with.  They may use a little smoke and mirrors, but who doesn't in this industry?  Truth is they do a great job with pricing structure for the merchants benifit.  Don't give them a hard time for trying to charge a merchant a different way than the rest of the 3 tier agents out there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have competed with heartland for years and I can say one thing, when it comes to effective rate, try to compete.  They are always close to the lowest and hardest to compete with.  They may use a little smoke and mirrors, but who doesn&#8217;t in this industry?  Truth is they do a great job with pricing structure for the merchants benifit.  Don&#8217;t give them a hard time for trying to charge a merchant a different way than the rest of the 3 tier agents out there!</p>
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		<title>By: jestep</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1366</link>
		<dc:creator>jestep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1366</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite="Justice"&gt;
Heartland made a full disclosure to the merchant, and I can prove it.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Whether or not heartland made a full disclosure is irrelevant. The simple fact that the merchant thought they were going to pay .4% for their credit card transactions undermines any claim to full disclosure in my book.

Now, who's responsibility is it to ensure that the fees are understood? Obviously it is the business owner's. But, it is assumable that a business claiming full disclosure is going to adequately explain to a business owner what they will be paying, especially in an instance like this where a non-standard pricing structure is used.

&lt;blockquote cite="Justice"&gt;
Next point: The Bankers who make up the Board of the Visa / MasterCard Association are responsible for structuring Interchange â€¦ which they do to their benefit.

So, the core of the conversation in the posts above mine needs to be directed back to the foundational question of â€œwho gets paid what?â€

The first party to be paid is the Card Holder, believe it or not. The Card Holder gets paid a hefty portion of the Interchange pie. The American consumer currently takes home â€¦. [pause for effect] 44% of â€œInterchange.â€
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, the bankers and card issuing banks that control Visa / MC structure interchange in their favor. It doesn't add to their credibility that those same banks collect interest on their customer's credit cards, which provides far more revenue than credit card processing. With that in mind, the reward / cash back / airline card programs that contribute to consumers accounting for 44% of interchange are essentially marketing so that card issuers can get more cards to consumer. It's hard to say that consumers are responsible for this either. They never really requested it, they were just offered it. In the end, the businesses that accept cards are the ones who ultimately suffer from interchange prices wherever they are derived from.

&lt;blockquote cite="Justice"&gt;
Last sentence: Armed with the right answers to these two key questions, you will have a new perspective on which of the sales reps made the best offer to this specific merchant.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Again, ideally this would work perfectly, but this can only be accurate assuming that the person signing up for the account has the knowledge to understand what they are getting into. Ask the majority of business owners new or not, if they know what interchange category their transactions falls into. Ask them if they know what a pass through rate is. Even simpler, ask them to explain where they fit in looking at Visa or MasterCard's interchange tables. I'll bet that most cant do it, even with the information sitting right there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Justice"><p>
Heartland made a full disclosure to the merchant, and I can prove it.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Whether or not heartland made a full disclosure is irrelevant. The simple fact that the merchant thought they were going to pay .4% for their credit card transactions undermines any claim to full disclosure in my book.</p>
<p>Now, who&#8217;s responsibility is it to ensure that the fees are understood? Obviously it is the business owner&#8217;s. But, it is assumable that a business claiming full disclosure is going to adequately explain to a business owner what they will be paying, especially in an instance like this where a non-standard pricing structure is used.</p>
<blockquote cite="Justice"><p>
Next point: The Bankers who make up the Board of the Visa / MasterCard Association are responsible for structuring Interchange â€¦ which they do to their benefit.</p>
<p>So, the core of the conversation in the posts above mine needs to be directed back to the foundational question of â€œwho gets paid what?â€</p>
<p>The first party to be paid is the Card Holder, believe it or not. The Card Holder gets paid a hefty portion of the Interchange pie. The American consumer currently takes home â€¦. [pause for effect] 44% of â€œInterchange.â€
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, the bankers and card issuing banks that control Visa / MC structure interchange in their favor. It doesn&#8217;t add to their credibility that those same banks collect interest on their customer&#8217;s credit cards, which provides far more revenue than credit card processing. With that in mind, the reward / cash back / airline card programs that contribute to consumers accounting for 44% of interchange are essentially marketing so that card issuers can get more cards to consumer. It&#8217;s hard to say that consumers are responsible for this either. They never really requested it, they were just offered it. In the end, the businesses that accept cards are the ones who ultimately suffer from interchange prices wherever they are derived from.</p>
<blockquote cite="Justice"><p>
Last sentence: Armed with the right answers to these two key questions, you will have a new perspective on which of the sales reps made the best offer to this specific merchant.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Again, ideally this would work perfectly, but this can only be accurate assuming that the person signing up for the account has the knowledge to understand what they are getting into. Ask the majority of business owners new or not, if they know what interchange category their transactions falls into. Ask them if they know what a pass through rate is. Even simpler, ask them to explain where they fit in looking at Visa or MasterCard&#8217;s interchange tables. I&#8217;ll bet that most cant do it, even with the information sitting right there.</p>
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		<title>By: Justice</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1342</link>
		<dc:creator>Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 16:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1342</guid>
		<description>Let's start at square one.  

Heartland made a full disclosure to the merchant, and I can prove it.  Most any store with more than 50 locations has graduated from a bundled billing structure which lists fee categories called "Mids and Nons."  Mids and Nons are the true mystery categories, not comprehended fully by the merchant.  For any merchant who does fully comprehend the meaning of "Mid" or "Non" would want a better payment structure on the offer table. 

The further down the rabbit hole one travels in the payment processing industry, the better grasp one gets on how exactly all parties to a transaction get paid.  Let me explain that statement.  Diamond Management &#38; Technology Consultants posted a report in pie-graph format in the November 06 edition of Digital Transactions magazine.  The graph was called "What Interchange Pays For."  Quite interesting.  Before we cover one of details from this graph, it is illuminating to hear how field reps "fully disclose" what Interchange is, and what Interchange does.  Reps tend to toss the word "Interchange" around as though it were some mystical code that only the elect have passage to understand.  

Next point:  The Bankers who make up the Board of the Visa / MasterCard Association are responsible for structuring Interchange ... which they do to their benefit.  

So, the core of the conversation in the posts above mine needs to be directed back to the foundational question of "who gets paid what?"

The first party to be paid is the Card Holder, believe it or not.  The Card Holder gets paid a hefty portion of the Interchange pie.  The American consumer currently takes home  .... [pause for effect] 44% of "Interchange."  That statement there should cause several people to go back to the books and do some more research to re-establish some of their fundamental understandings of this industry.  We'll leave the rest of the pie for you to discover in your research.  

Last point before the conclusion:  Let's get personal.  Check your own personal mail box at your own house.  I am willing to guess the only card offers that stay in your hand any longer than the 5 seconds it takes to put them in the shredder are the ones that say real bold on the envelope "Earn 5% Cash Back" or "Get Free Gas" or "Earn Points, Trips, Tickets, Trucks, all kinds of Toys."  You still laugh and shred the offer.  But consider this statistic; 53% of all Visa cards issued in the year 2005 were tied back to some sort of Rewards Program.  

Now, when deciding which rep provided  "merchant A" with the most accurate information about the reality of how the card payment industry is going to  effect that merchant's bottom line ... ask yourself these questions: 

1.  According to your understanding of the payment industry, what % of an average  Sit Down Restaurant's total sales volume will fit nicely into the Interchange categories of: Rewards 1&#38;2, Standard, Corporate, Commercial, Signature, Small Ticket, World, Merit 1, Elite, Travel, or the other Interchange categories besides "Retail?"

2.  Look at your own paycheck and residual spreadsheet to answer this one.  What percent of your personal take home pay is derived from the categories called "Mids and Nons?"  Better yet, does your Processor disclose to you how many basis points of margin both you and they making in these mystery categories?  

Last sentence:  Armed with the right answers to these two key questions, you will have a new perspective on which of the sales reps made the best offer to this specific merchant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s start at square one.  </p>
<p>Heartland made a full disclosure to the merchant, and I can prove it.  Most any store with more than 50 locations has graduated from a bundled billing structure which lists fee categories called &#8220;Mids and Nons.&#8221;  Mids and Nons are the true mystery categories, not comprehended fully by the merchant.  For any merchant who does fully comprehend the meaning of &#8220;Mid&#8221; or &#8220;Non&#8221; would want a better payment structure on the offer table. </p>
<p>The further down the rabbit hole one travels in the payment processing industry, the better grasp one gets on how exactly all parties to a transaction get paid.  Let me explain that statement.  Diamond Management &amp; Technology Consultants posted a report in pie-graph format in the November 06 edition of Digital Transactions magazine.  The graph was called &#8220;What Interchange Pays For.&#8221;  Quite interesting.  Before we cover one of details from this graph, it is illuminating to hear how field reps &#8220;fully disclose&#8221; what Interchange is, and what Interchange does.  Reps tend to toss the word &#8220;Interchange&#8221; around as though it were some mystical code that only the elect have passage to understand.  </p>
<p>Next point:  The Bankers who make up the Board of the Visa / MasterCard Association are responsible for structuring Interchange &#8230; which they do to their benefit.  </p>
<p>So, the core of the conversation in the posts above mine needs to be directed back to the foundational question of &#8220;who gets paid what?&#8221;</p>
<p>The first party to be paid is the Card Holder, believe it or not.  The Card Holder gets paid a hefty portion of the Interchange pie.  The American consumer currently takes home  &#8230;. [pause for effect] 44% of &#8220;Interchange.&#8221;  That statement there should cause several people to go back to the books and do some more research to re-establish some of their fundamental understandings of this industry.  We&#8217;ll leave the rest of the pie for you to discover in your research.  </p>
<p>Last point before the conclusion:  Let&#8217;s get personal.  Check your own personal mail box at your own house.  I am willing to guess the only card offers that stay in your hand any longer than the 5 seconds it takes to put them in the shredder are the ones that say real bold on the envelope &#8220;Earn 5% Cash Back&#8221; or &#8220;Get Free Gas&#8221; or &#8220;Earn Points, Trips, Tickets, Trucks, all kinds of Toys.&#8221;  You still laugh and shred the offer.  But consider this statistic; 53% of all Visa cards issued in the year 2005 were tied back to some sort of Rewards Program.  </p>
<p>Now, when deciding which rep provided  &#8220;merchant A&#8221; with the most accurate information about the reality of how the card payment industry is going to  effect that merchant&#8217;s bottom line &#8230; ask yourself these questions: </p>
<p>1.  According to your understanding of the payment industry, what % of an average  Sit Down Restaurant&#8217;s total sales volume will fit nicely into the Interchange categories of: Rewards 1&amp;2, Standard, Corporate, Commercial, Signature, Small Ticket, World, Merit 1, Elite, Travel, or the other Interchange categories besides &#8220;Retail?&#8221;</p>
<p>2.  Look at your own paycheck and residual spreadsheet to answer this one.  What percent of your personal take home pay is derived from the categories called &#8220;Mids and Nons?&#8221;  Better yet, does your Processor disclose to you how many basis points of margin both you and they making in these mystery categories?  </p>
<p>Last sentence:  Armed with the right answers to these two key questions, you will have a new perspective on which of the sales reps made the best offer to this specific merchant.</p>
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		<title>By: jestep</title>
		<link>http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1333</link>
		<dc:creator>jestep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.merchantaccountblog.com/archives/209#comment-1333</guid>
		<description>Heartland was quoting a passthrough rate. They are going to add .4% and ($.04 - $.10) on top of interchange. At a minimum they would pay a transaction fee of $.14, not $.04, so at best their transaction fee is $.05 lower.

Visa interchange is 1.54% + $.10 per transaction. This means that Heartland is going to charge them 1.94% and ($.14 - $.20) per transaction, MasterCard: 2.04% and ($.14 - $.20).

1.94% &#038; $.20 across $5000 (333 transactions) = $97 + $67 = (~$164 Total in fees per month).

Our agent would have been charging ~$147 (1.68% &#038; $.20).

The point of the post was not ever to make a price to price comparison, even though our agent would have been cheaper, (especially after MasterCard is thrown in). It was to point out a deceptive business practice, which is exactly what it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heartland was quoting a passthrough rate. They are going to add .4% and ($.04 - $.10) on top of interchange. At a minimum they would pay a transaction fee of $.14, not $.04, so at best their transaction fee is $.05 lower.</p>
<p>Visa interchange is 1.54% + $.10 per transaction. This means that Heartland is going to charge them 1.94% and ($.14 - $.20) per transaction, MasterCard: 2.04% and ($.14 - $.20).</p>
<p>1.94% &#038; $.20 across $5000 (333 transactions) = $97 + $67 = (~$164 Total in fees per month).</p>
<p>Our agent would have been charging ~$147 (1.68% &#038; $.20).</p>
<p>The point of the post was not ever to make a price to price comparison, even though our agent would have been cheaper, (especially after MasterCard is thrown in). It was to point out a deceptive business practice, which is exactly what it is.</p>
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